Your Questions
Quote from: Wendy on June 08, 2007, 01:02:03 pm>>>>Can an androgyne that was born male be more female than male?
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Not exactly... To an observer, an Androgyne individual may appear to be on the left or right of center on a sliding scale of M<--->F gender. But those who have an Androgyne gender identity do not place self-value in masculinity or in femininity. Androgyne values are human values - not gender values. What Androgynes desire to express is not necessarily more maleness or femaleness, rather it's the opportunity to express their full humanness, which is sometimes denied to them due to societal gender expectations, much the way Transsexuals are likewise denied. Example: In our culture, gentleness is expected in a woman, but it is not a requirement for a man. Yet gentleness is a good thing for both sexes to have in their character makeup! Androgynes find a positive value in gentleness, not because it has a female gender value, but because it is an important human value.
Quote from: Wendy on June 08, 2007, 01:02:03 pm>>>>Also do some androgynes physically change their bodies with HRT?
<<<<
Not usually. Androgynes don't identify with one gender any more than the other gender. Excluding the possibility that one's core identity is crossgendered and not Androgynes to begin with, I'm aware of only three circumstances where an Androgyne would use HRT for body modification.
1) They mistakenly identified as a member of the opposite gender/sex. Example: "I am male but I don't feel like a man, therefore I must be a woman." (This is not an uncommon thought if an Androgyne is not aware of the either/or flaw in the binary gender system and the existence of Androgyne gender identity.)
2) They mistakenly believe that they can become an Androgyne and/or being an Androgyne somehow requires one's body to display certain characteristics. (There is no such requirement. Most Androgynes are as equally content with the body nature gave them as the average Cisgender person.)
3) They are Neutrois. (Note: There is an ongoing debate whether Neutrois are Androgynes due in part to their acute GID dysphoria. The jury is still out, but I'm apt to think they are Androgyne.)
Quote from: RebeccaFog on June 08, 2007, 03:01:00 pm>>>>Good questions, Wendy.
I just want to add - How tall do you have to be to get on this ride? :)
<<<<
No need to be tall, but your legs must be long enough for your feet to touch the ground! :icon_mrhappy:
Seriously, by all personal accounts, Androgynes are born, not made. As you know, Transsexual individuals are unable to identify with the gender that matches their birth sex - the same is true of Androgynes for both genders.
Quote from: RebeccaFog on June 08, 2007, 03:01:00 pm>>>>Do neutrois commonly desire body modification?
<<<<
Neutrois ALWAYS desire nullifying body modification. Possessing the desire to eliminate their body's sexual characteristics is the definition of a Neutrois.
Thanks for asking!
-Emerald :icon_bunch:
Wendy:
Dear Emerald I think you (and Tink) are fantastic teachers on this forum!
Thanks for your help Emerald!
Nero:
Quote from: Emerald on June 10, 2007, 12:23:06 pm>>>>Quote from: Wendy on June 08, 2007, 01:02:03 pm>>>>Thanks Emerald. I like the way you simplify things.
Is binary the sliding scale between genders?
<<<<
Close! The binary gender continuum is illustrated by two points representing the genders of male and female, and a line representing a sliding scale between the two polar ends. (Note: This continuum will falsely indicate the more masculine you are the less feminine you are.) The binary gender system acknowledges only two genders which correspond to the two physical sex. Gender binary in general is the societal construct that prohibits the existence of more than two sexes, more than two genders, and crossgender expression.
Quote from: Wendy on June 08, 2007, 01:02:03 pm>>>>Can an androgyne that was born male be more female than male?
<<<<
Not exactly... To an observer, an Androgyne individual may appear to be on the left or right of center on a sliding scale of M<--->F gender. But those who have an Androgyne gender identity do not place self-value in masculinity or in femininity. Androgyne values are human values - not gender values. What Androgynes desire to express is not necessarily more maleness or femaleness, rather it's the opportunity to express their full humanness, which is sometimes denied to them due to societal gender expectations, much the way Transsexuals are likewise denied. Example: In our culture, gentleness is expected in a woman, but it is not a requirement for a man. Yet gentleness is a good thing for both sexes to have in their character makeup! Androgynes find a positive value in gentleness, not because it has a female gender value, but because it is an important human value.
Quote from: Wendy on June 08, 2007, 01:02:03 pm>>>>Also do some androgynes physically change their bodies with HRT?
<<<<
Not usually. Androgynes don't identify with one gender any more than the other gender. Excluding the possibility that one's core identity is crossgendered and not Androgynes to begin with, I'm aware of only three circumstances where an Androgyne would use HRT for body modification.
1) They mistakenly identified as a member of the opposite gender/sex. Example: "I am male but I don't feel like a man, therefore I must be a woman." (This is not an uncommon thought if an Androgyne is not aware of the either/or flaw in the binary gender system and the existence of Androgyne gender identity.)
2) They mistakenly believe that they can become an Androgyne and/or being an Androgyne somehow requires one's body to display certain characteristics. (There is no such requirement. Most Androgynes are as equally content with the body nature gave them as the average Cisgender person.)
3) They are Neutrois. (Note: There is an ongoing debate whether Neutrois are Androgynes due in part to their acute GID dysphoria. The jury is still out, but I'm apt to think they are Androgyne.)
Quote from: RebeccaFog on June 08, 2007, 03:01:00 pm>>>>Good questions, Wendy.
I just want to add - How tall do you have to be to get on this ride? :)
<<<<
No need to be tall, but your legs must be long enough for your feet to touch the ground! :icon_mrhappy:
Seriously, by all personal accounts, Androgynes are born, not made. As you know, Transsexual individuals are unable to identify with the gender that matches their birth sex - the same is true of Androgynes for both genders.
Quote from: RebeccaFog on June 08, 2007, 03:01:00 pm>>>>Do neutrois commonly desire body modification?
<<<<
Neutrois ALWAYS desire nullifying body modification. Possessing the desire to eliminate their body's sexual characteristics is the definition of a Neutrois.
Thanks for asking!
-Emerald :icon_bunch:
<<<<Great info, Emerald. I'm not androgyne then. Just a guy who likes some aspects of being female.
Pica Pica:
Thanks for this. Especially this bit.
Now that is me.
Quote from: Emerald on June 10, 2007, 12:23:06 pm>>>>Quote from: Wendy on June 08, 2007, 01:02:03 pm>>>>
Not exactly... To an observer, an Androgyne individual may appear to be on the left or right of center on a sliding scale of M<--->F gender. But those who have an Androgyne gender identity do not place self-value in masculinity or in femininity. Androgyne values are human values - not gender values. What Androgynes desire to express is not necessarily more maleness or femaleness, rather it's the opportunity to express their full humanness, which is sometimes denied to them due to societal gender expectations, much the way Transsexuals are likewise denied. Example: In our culture, gentleness is expected in a woman, but it is not a requirement for a man. Yet gentleness is a good thing for both sexes to have in their character makeup! Androgynes find a positive value in gentleness, not because it has a female gender value, but because it is an important human value.
<<<<
<<<<
Rebis:
Quote from: Emerald on June 07, 2007, 10:14:16 pm>>>>
A very short course on the ways transgender people change things:
* Transsexuals change their physical sex.
* Neutrois change their gendered body.
* Transgenderists change their social gender.
* Bi-genderists change their gender personas.
* Crossdressers change their gendered clothing.
* Androgynes change the gender binary
<<<<
Not exactly... To an observer, an Androgyne individual may appear to be on the left or right of center on a sliding scale of M<--->F gender. But those who have an Androgyne gender identity do not place self-value in masculinity or in femininity. Androgyne values are human values - not gender values. What Androgynes desire to express is not necessarily more maleness or femaleness, rather it's the opportunity to express their full humanness, which is sometimes denied to them due to societal gender expectations, much the way Transsexuals are likewise denied. Example: In our culture, gentleness is expected in a woman, but it is not a requirement for a man. Yet gentleness is a good thing for both sexes to have in their character makeup! Androgynes find a positive value in gentleness, not because it has a female gender value, but because it is an important human value.
Quote from: Wendy on June 08, 2007, 01:02:03 pm>>>>Also do some androgynes physically change their bodies with HRT?
<<<<
Not usually. Androgynes don't identify with one gender any more than the other gender. Excluding the possibility that one's core identity is crossgendered and not Androgynes to begin with, I'm aware of only three circumstances where an Androgyne would use HRT for body modification.
1) They mistakenly identified as a member of the opposite gender/sex. Example: "I am male but I don't feel like a man, therefore I must be a woman." (This is not an uncommon thought if an Androgyne is not aware of the either/or flaw in the binary gender system and the existence of Androgyne gender identity.)
2) They mistakenly believe that they can become an Androgyne and/or being an Androgyne somehow requires one's body to display certain characteristics. (There is no such requirement. Most Androgynes are as equally content with the body nature gave them as the average Cisgender person.)
3) They are Neutrois. (Note: There is an ongoing debate whether Neutrois are Androgynes due in part to their acute GID dysphoria. The jury is still out, but I'm apt to think they are Androgyne.)
Quote from: RebeccaFog on June 08, 2007, 03:01:00 pm>>>>Good questions, Wendy.
I just want to add - How tall do you have to be to get on this ride? :)
<<<<
No need to be tall, but your legs must be long enough for your feet to touch the ground! :icon_mrhappy:
Seriously, by all personal accounts, Androgynes are born, not made. As you know, Transsexual individuals are unable to identify with the gender that matches their birth sex - the same is true of Androgynes for both genders.
Quote from: RebeccaFog on June 08, 2007, 03:01:00 pm>>>>Do neutrois commonly desire body modification?
<<<<
Neutrois ALWAYS desire nullifying body modification. Possessing the desire to eliminate their body's sexual characteristics is the definition of a Neutrois.
Thanks for asking!
-Emerald :icon_bunch:
Wendy:
Dear Emerald I think you (and Tink) are fantastic teachers on this forum!
Thanks for your help Emerald!
Nero:
Quote from: Emerald on June 10, 2007, 12:23:06 pm>>>>Quote from: Wendy on June 08, 2007, 01:02:03 pm>>>>Thanks Emerald. I like the way you simplify things.
Is binary the sliding scale between genders?
<<<<
Close! The binary gender continuum is illustrated by two points representing the genders of male and female, and a line representing a sliding scale between the two polar ends. (Note: This continuum will falsely indicate the more masculine you are the less feminine you are.) The binary gender system acknowledges only two genders which correspond to the two physical sex. Gender binary in general is the societal construct that prohibits the existence of more than two sexes, more than two genders, and crossgender expression.
Quote from: Wendy on June 08, 2007, 01:02:03 pm>>>>Can an androgyne that was born male be more female than male?
<<<<
Not exactly... To an observer, an Androgyne individual may appear to be on the left or right of center on a sliding scale of M<--->F gender. But those who have an Androgyne gender identity do not place self-value in masculinity or in femininity. Androgyne values are human values - not gender values. What Androgynes desire to express is not necessarily more maleness or femaleness, rather it's the opportunity to express their full humanness, which is sometimes denied to them due to societal gender expectations, much the way Transsexuals are likewise denied. Example: In our culture, gentleness is expected in a woman, but it is not a requirement for a man. Yet gentleness is a good thing for both sexes to have in their character makeup! Androgynes find a positive value in gentleness, not because it has a female gender value, but because it is an important human value.
Quote from: Wendy on June 08, 2007, 01:02:03 pm>>>>Also do some androgynes physically change their bodies with HRT?
<<<<
Not usually. Androgynes don't identify with one gender any more than the other gender. Excluding the possibility that one's core identity is crossgendered and not Androgynes to begin with, I'm aware of only three circumstances where an Androgyne would use HRT for body modification.
1) They mistakenly identified as a member of the opposite gender/sex. Example: "I am male but I don't feel like a man, therefore I must be a woman." (This is not an uncommon thought if an Androgyne is not aware of the either/or flaw in the binary gender system and the existence of Androgyne gender identity.)
2) They mistakenly believe that they can become an Androgyne and/or being an Androgyne somehow requires one's body to display certain characteristics. (There is no such requirement. Most Androgynes are as equally content with the body nature gave them as the average Cisgender person.)
3) They are Neutrois. (Note: There is an ongoing debate whether Neutrois are Androgynes due in part to their acute GID dysphoria. The jury is still out, but I'm apt to think they are Androgyne.)
Quote from: RebeccaFog on June 08, 2007, 03:01:00 pm>>>>Good questions, Wendy.
I just want to add - How tall do you have to be to get on this ride? :)
<<<<
No need to be tall, but your legs must be long enough for your feet to touch the ground! :icon_mrhappy:
Seriously, by all personal accounts, Androgynes are born, not made. As you know, Transsexual individuals are unable to identify with the gender that matches their birth sex - the same is true of Androgynes for both genders.
Quote from: RebeccaFog on June 08, 2007, 03:01:00 pm>>>>Do neutrois commonly desire body modification?
<<<<
Neutrois ALWAYS desire nullifying body modification. Possessing the desire to eliminate their body's sexual characteristics is the definition of a Neutrois.
Thanks for asking!
-Emerald :icon_bunch:
<<<<Great info, Emerald. I'm not androgyne then. Just a guy who likes some aspects of being female.
Pica Pica:
Thanks for this. Especially this bit.
Now that is me.
Quote from: Emerald on June 10, 2007, 12:23:06 pm>>>>Quote from: Wendy on June 08, 2007, 01:02:03 pm>>>>
Not exactly... To an observer, an Androgyne individual may appear to be on the left or right of center on a sliding scale of M<--->F gender. But those who have an Androgyne gender identity do not place self-value in masculinity or in femininity. Androgyne values are human values - not gender values. What Androgynes desire to express is not necessarily more maleness or femaleness, rather it's the opportunity to express their full humanness, which is sometimes denied to them due to societal gender expectations, much the way Transsexuals are likewise denied. Example: In our culture, gentleness is expected in a woman, but it is not a requirement for a man. Yet gentleness is a good thing for both sexes to have in their character makeup! Androgynes find a positive value in gentleness, not because it has a female gender value, but because it is an important human value.
<<<<
<<<<
Rebis:
Quote from: Emerald on June 07, 2007, 10:14:16 pm>>>>
A very short course on the ways transgender people change things:
* Transsexuals change their physical sex.
* Neutrois change their gendered body.
* Transgenderists change their social gender.
* Bi-genderists change their gender personas.
* Crossdressers change their gendered clothing.
* Androgynes change the gender binary